A Dialogue on Spiritual Fathers

This is a dialogue between myself and an esteemed brother named Jim. We are discussing my previous blog, "Spiritual Fathers" by Sam Soleyn. I found this dialogue so interesting that I want to share it for the purpose of spurring on further discussions. I especially love the tone of humility and love between us as brothers as we dialogue. Jim's writing and questions are in black and my responses are red. Please read it and add your comments at the end of the blog.

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Dear Manny,

The letter was very interesting (enough to pull me out of typing on my dissertation). However, I find myself troubled by some questions that the letter raised for me. Understand, I believe in the concept that we need spiritual fathers (and at times spiritual mothers, for mothers teach us some things that fathers cannot). However, I find that it is often crucial to ask in just what way the concept or "spiritual principle" is worked out or administered. The issue is often the underlying assumptions of the teaching or teacher. With that, please allow me to ask some questions.

Let me start by saying that when it comes to authority issues and spiritual fathers I am in no way endorsing a newly wrapped version of sheparding. This is actually not even close though some may think it is due to the vocabulary.

First, how do we know when someone has the spiritual maturity to be a "spiritual father"? I am not at all sure that age plays a part in it. I have known men who were spiritual fathers at age 25. Paul tells Timothy in the same letter cited by the author "let no one look down on your youthfulness…" On the other hand, I find that it is not always natural for a woman to trust her husband (whether this is a part of the Fall or just the woman's own history I would not care to debate right now). Having a "spiritual father" can interfere with the woman learning to trust her husband, because the temptation is to continue trusting the father figure over her husband. I have seen this, personally, as well as cases where a "spiritual father" was not so spiritual and did great damage to the family's life.

How do we know who is mature enough? This, as you have stated, has nothing to do wth chronological age as much as it does with reflecting who God is through a mortal being. Reflecting God is our purpose through a maturing process. When it reads in Genesis 1:26 that we were created in God's image and likeness it is referring to a process as much as a statement of position. In His image because we are spiritual beings as God is a spirit. In His likeness as in maturing in our personalities to reflect His attributes as much as we could without being divine. An example in the natural is a biological child who has the parent's DNA and over time will reflect the parent's value system as the child matures. There will be no denying whose child that is from the image and likeness of the parent. All examples have limitations and can be dangerous if taken out to far but I believe you understand what I am saying.

Also a true father always wants the best for his child. A father doesn't expect to receive from the child but will give so the child could progress. Love is definitely the basis of this relationship. This love is the new commandment given to us by Jesus in John 15:12 which establishes a new reference point: no longer as you love yourself but as I have loved you.

If these 2 points are evident than we are beginning to distance ourselves from men with wrong motives and even well meaning men but whose standards do not promote our desire to mature into Father's likeness and the sacrifing love will not be there. In this case the "spiritual son" is cared for more than status, buildings and yes even institutions as in today's denominations and "church organizations".

The second question then becomes, "whose authority prevails"? The Scripture establishes marriage and the authority of the husband over the wife (1 Cor 11; Eph 5; 1 Tim 2). The scripture nowhere establishes an office of "spiritual father" which is authorized to interfere in a marriage. While women need pastoral care and counseling, should they not get this from the local church? If one would respond that many local churches do not meet such a need, then I would say that this is a call to heal the local body or plant something healthy. We are discussing the "spiritual principle," as well, and so such an illustration would be irrelevant.

This is an outstanding question / observation "whose authority prevails". This very question shakes every wineskin that we may have created or place our trust in. There is only one authority and that is God. Oh yes we may spout that but do we really believe it? There is only one head and that is manifested for us in the Person of Jesus. It is His church, His body and His Bride. We are to be as children before Him and accept Him not only as Savior but also as Lord.

True that there is no "office" of spiritual fathers but there is the relationship of being one. A spiritual father is not one who has any more authority than any one else in the Body. If he forgets this than yes he will inetfere and even become a busybody. One becomes a spiritual father when he is asked to be one in a person's life. This of course should be birthed out of relationship. It is no more than a more mature brother, as evidenced in his reflecting the image and likeness of God that is giving counsel as he is allowed to do in the relationship between an adult son and a father. It is no longer by edict to a 2 year old but by Godly persuassion as he points to the Scriptures and to the One True Father. Through situations he is bring the parties back to the Father and help them to mature themselves into the Father's likeness. This is not to make people dependent on the spiritual father or to become an enabler but one who points to the Father in that situation. It does open the door to a carte blanche shepherding position and a good spiritual father will not allow it to go there.

So ultimately every thing points back to restoration with the Father. So who is in charge? Pastor? Husband? The institutional church? We need to learn to trust in the Headship of God and anything or anyone who doesn't point in that direction, by more tham words, is really stealing the affection and the glory that rightly belongs to Father God.I suggest that we re-evaluate how we work out faith through our modern day "church institutions" and all of her offices.

This is question of authority is extremely relevant today, where it sometimes seems that anyone and everyone who feels a call (or even a desire) to minister now calls himself an "apostle." Thus the third question is about authority in the church. Do "spiritual fathers" then mediate between the believer and the Heavenly Father? Can we not each of us, including Christian wives, go directly to the Heavenly Father for grace in the time of need (Heb 10:19-25)? And what of the local church? Most of us are not comfortable calling the pastor "Father" as with the Roman Catholics, Orthodox, or Anglicans, and yet the pastor would appear to be the natural person to be the "spiritual father" for his congregation. Is not the scripturally based gift of pastor enough, especially as we emphasize the function of such a one as a "feeder" and a shepherd (the original and still relevant meaning of "pastor")? Where then do pastors fit into the schema of "spiritual fathers"?

WOW! This is more than a question. There are many questions here and they all come from a modern day institutional view of church and her functions.

It is true that the latest fad is to be called an apostle as it seems that the desire to be called a prophet is not as much in vogue today. This I believe is because the Apostle is being better understood and released by the Holy Spirit today. That is not to say that anyone can take on the function of an apostle on their own. The "5 Fold Ministries" or the Post Ascension Gifts are exactly that; gifts given by Jesus to the Bride. They must be given if they are to be gifts. One can only receive a gift and cannot take it by their own volition if it is to be a gift.

Another point is that a person claiming to be an Apostle may be an apostle but he may be a false apostle. So an apostle yes but not an apostolic gift from Jesus. So we need to be careful not to throw out the baby with the bath water because there are so many false apostles. I also believe that the office is that of an elder and the functiion is that of apostle ("apostle-ing"). I could discuss the purpose of the 5 Fold as a whole and the Apostle specifically but I would diverse to do so. I would simply say that an Apostle brings order, establishes foundations, reveals mysteries of God and builds (edifies) the Body of Christ.

Spiritual fathers do not mediate between the saints and God because there is only one mediator and that is Jesus. A spiritual father walks together with his adult child and helps point towards the Father from his walk towards the father and the revelation he has received. True that he may be directive at times but he never replaces the Father or Jesus or the Holy Spirit and he speaks as a father would to an adult child. Ultimately the decision in a situation must be made by the individual.

Of course we are able to enter as individuals before the mercy seat, at anytime, by the price of the blood shed at the cross but not everyone knows what that means or even that they could. Certainly my prayers today are not the same as they were 30 years ago or even my understanding of what prayer is all about. If only I had had a spiritual father to have pointed it out I possibly could have mature quicker in this area.

About calling the pastor,father. True that every pastor is an elder but not every pastor is everyone's spiritual father. I do not believe that the elder that functions as a pastor (pastor-ing) is the head of the church. I believe that position can only be held by the groom Himself Jesus. Also I believe in the plurality of elders within the Body as well as in the Priesthood of Believers. I no longer accept that there is scriptural support for the dichotomy between clergy and laity. Therefore one could be an elder functioning as a pastor and not be the spiritual father for all around him.

How the Body lives (operates) without a man as the head is part of the journey on trusting Jesus for building His church and this does have many other trails we can discuss in the future. This statement does not eliminate the need of elders to lead from a relational standpoint.

The fourth question concerns the Scripture. While fatherhood is something by which God intends to reveal himself, I believe, we must tread carefully here because some of what we teach is frankly extra-biblical. We infer the idea that earthly fathers are supposed to teach us about the nature and ways of God. The idea of "spiritual fathers" is a further extension, one step farther from the security of the revelation of the Word. Some of the biblical justification offered for the principle will not fly.

Granted that any Biblical principle can be distorted by man but that does not negate the need for older men to teach younger men. These older men are simply fathers of the faith that help the younger men to look towards Father God himself. We see this not only in the New Testament, especially in Paul's writings, but also in Deuteronomy 6:4-9.

I can still remember the days when phrases as "Pillars of the Faith" and "Fathers of the Faith" were acceptable norms. Unfortunately with time these phrases have fallen into disrepute as man have soiled them with faulty application. In Africa there is no higher place in society than being declared as a respected papa and the worse thing a man can become to his genealogy forever is to be called a foolish papa. I digress.

Fathers are needed and do teach us about the Spiritual Father as long as they are reflections of the nature of Father God. God, in all His wisdom, has decided to utilize men to lead other men in the journey to a closer relationship with the Father. A father turning the hearts of sons towards the Father.

Paul was a "spiritual father" to the Corinthians, but because he had "birthed" them in Christ through the ministry of the Gospel. Let us also note that Paul did not require submission to his authority from the Corinthians because he was acting as a (Hebrew) father, rather than a Roman patriarch. Such a "birthing" through evangelism would appear to grant a spiritual authority in such a situation (and before anyone objects to my discussion of authority, let me point out that the letter's author makes the point that the family –and by implication the church family- is patriarchal, and he does so several times. Patriarchy strongly implies authority). It is the pastor/elder that is given authority by God in the sphere of the church according to Scripture (Heb 13:17; 1 Pet 5:1-5). Let us note that the submission of the younger men to the elder which is required in 1 Peter 5:6 is not to a "spiritual father" but to the elder/pastor of the local congregation.

Submission is definitely an anathema in our society today isn't it? We must never forget that man cannot replace the Father. Submission is to the Father and not men. When we submit to man we are to submit to the authority of God operating through man. This submission is only for the time or instance that God's authority is in operation. God's authority is found in His eternal Word and as the Spirit gives His Word in a situation we are to submit to the Father by submitting to His Word that is being delivered by a man and not to the man per se.

In 1 Peter 1:2 Peter is speaking about being obedient to Jesus Christ while Hebrews 13:17 is exhorting us to obey the elders, which may or may not be functioning as pastors, because they are watching and caring for us and not because of a title or position. Obey the ones that loving care for you and are pointing you towards a relationship with Father God. Why would one not "obey", follow the directions, if they benefit you in your journey? Again this is supposing the earlier sections on the new commandment on love, authority and spiritual fathers.

True that "birthing" gives one an inherent sense of fatherhood and authority but I know you understand that one does not have to "birth" to be a father because one could adopt and be a better father than some biological fathers.

What will not fly, Scripturally, is the idea that "a child is born, but a son is given." First, this refers to Christ, and only Christ, in any "spiritual" sense. Second, these two phrases are an example of Hebrew synonymous parallelism, a kind of poetry common in the Prophets as well as the Psalms. Both of these phrases refer to the one act of the Heavenly Father giving to us a savior – a savior and not a father. Moreover, Elisha was the apprentice, the official student (one might say the padawan) of Elijah. Their relationship is not typical of spiritual relationships except where one is a "student" of another, and "student-teacher" relationships are not permanent, especially not in the authority a teacher has over a student. Therefore, the biblical justification of "spiritual fathers" is very weak, one might say nearly non-existent. Where "mentoring" relationships are usually very healthy, a mentor does not exercise the authority of a father.

What I submit is that we need to be "padawans" from our Master Jedis if we are to learn about the force and operate properly within its limitations and not cross over. We are not perfect Jedis, unlike Jesus, so our relationships as teacher-student is not permanent and we move on when we have become more proficient with our lasers than our masters. What happens when one becomes more proficient than his sensei in martial arts? I would guess that the good sensei who wants the best for his student is to turn him over to a sensei who could teach him more. Like a music teacher, etc.

I plead with you, I beg you not to beat me up with the Star Wars examples that I am very limited with.

My response has obviously turned into a discussion of the authority of the "spiritual father." Such authority was not overtly claimed in the letter; however the implication seems very strong. On the one hand, we find a very strong emphasis on "patriarchy" in the family and this seems clearly extended to the spiritual family of the church. On the other, the author uses the language of a "restored" principle (i.e. "anointing"?) of spiritual fatherhood. In what sense is "spiritual fatherhood" restored? We have always had such people among us. What makes an Oswald Chambers or a Peter Marshall so influential is, I believe, the spiritual quality of fathering that comes through in their writings or sermons. Is the author claiming that "spiritual fatherhood" has been "restored" in the same way that some claim the "office" of apostle has been "restored?" If so, this is very shaky ground. An examination of the New Testament makes clear that only the "Apostles of the Lamb" or "Apostles of Christ" (same group) had spiritual authority in the church. The rest were "apostles of the church" such as Epaphroditus, the "apostle," or delegate, of the Philippian church (see the Greek of Phil 2:25 which is apostolos) or Barnabas who was the apostle of the church at Antioch (see Acts 13:1f). Such "apostles of the church" had only the authority granted them by the local church for their mission. I will leave aside the question of how Junia exercised authority in the "patriarchal" Roman church.

Spirutual fatherhood has existed as long as man has been on the earth. That is what Adam was to the human race after his fall and why he lived so long. So the concept of restoration of spiritual fathers is more along the line of our coming back to the Biblical principles that were instituted by God.

On a personal note I want you to know that this is not theoritical ramblings by me because I have seen it in action. I have spiritual father, who is older, who loves me and cres to see me move closer in maturing my relationship with Father God. I have had the privilege to be involved in starting house churches on these very same principles of Jesus being the head and He builds His church. In over 30 years of ministry I have never seen the same results of people growing in their relationships with their Lord. I have several that call me their spiritual father and I with trembling walk very carefully in this role. It is exciting to see disciples of Jesus maturing and all being dictated biblically and not by man's heartfelt, though non-biblical, methods of trying to reach God.

All this raises questions about the purpose, Scriptural justification, and legitimate authority which could be claimed for a "restored" spiritual fatherhood. Such questions are legitimate, I believe, even though spiritual fathering, or mentoring, has been going on for thousands of years. If we can answer these questions in submission to the revelation of Scripture we can stand on firm ground, established in healthy doctrine (see 2 Pet 1:20 and 1 Tim 1:10; 2 Tim 1:13).

Thanks for posting the letter, and for reading my response. May the Lord bless you richly.

Grace and Peace,
Jim